There is something very weird going on with the coroner. I believe she has been replaced now but an addictions specialist doctor I know personally had very strong negative opinions of the chief coroner because of her outsized influence on safe supply policy. Safe supply seems like a good idea on the surface but the huge problems it creates are:
1) cheap government drugs that are diverted. Did we learn nothing when we went through the OxyContin crisis? A lot of these addicts started out on prescription drugs they were prescribed. Then the government put a stop to that. What happened next? People that were addicted to pills went to the black market. The black market thrived with pills costing upwards of $1/mg or fentanyl that was equivalent to 10 cents a milligram the economics of that disparity can show you where people are going to end up. Then safer supply comes out and the street price of hydro morphine is now .10/mg people who are addicted will build up a tolerance are the edge of affordability. So we now have drugs that are extremely cheap and powerful and people are using more than they ever would have and that makes it that much harder to get off them.
2) when drug supplies are cheap and plentiful it robs addicts of “the gift of desperation” an addict with a cheap and steady supply of drugs is never going to think about getting clean or turning their life around. Those moments arrive when they don’t have money or don’t have drugs and while in a crippling withdrawal they have a moment of clarity that they are sick and tired of being sick and tired. It’s a blessing to have that moment of clarity but the next step in the process needs to also be effective.
3) there is a very short window between someone asking for help and when it can be effectively delivered. If someone is willing to seek help it needs to be delivered immediately. Our treatment system needs to reflect that. If someone goes to their doctor looking for help is the doctor going to be able to refer them to treatment or are they going to refer them to a safe supply clinic? If faced with the option an addiction is going to do anything within their power to stay high. These drugs literally rewire people brains. They are not capable of making proper decisions when faced with an option that includes staying high and that’s a problem.
It is hard for people who have never been an addict to understand the thought process. It’s also difficult for them to think of addicts as people other than the zombies roaming the downtown east side. There are plenty of doctors, lawyers, politicians and other prominent citizens that suffer in silence who can hold down a job and fuel their addiction that fall into the same category as the people on the streets. Addiction is a far more prevalent issue than meets the eye and when people are looking down on the people on the streets they need to look around because if they look hard enough they will know someone close to them that is struggling. Sometimes all it takes is a look in the mirror because you don’t need to be doing fentanyl to be infected by the disease of addiction and sometimes that self awareness isn’t there. The solution is hard and expensive and no political party can change things with a few strokes of a pen. It’s going to take all levels of government and community to come up with a viable solution to start saving the lives of countless people who have lost their way. I hope the lens we view addiction through changes soon because if all we see is homeless people walking the streets like zombies the policies are not going to affect the change we need as a society.
By, someone who was prescribed OxyContin and tried to get help for years before finally getting in touch with the right people at the right time to break the cycle nearly 5 years ago.
I always believed the best information comes from those who have ‘been there, done that’ … a wealth of knowledge. Your declaration at the end of your statement just ads power and substance.
I still would like to know the root of our lost souls, from teenagers to adults. Why? What is/was the pivotal time frame that the choice to do drugs, not to a drug addict, but to do drugs transpired? We are all fairly educated on all the reasons NOT to do drugs. Why are people choosing drugs? Why are teenagers so bored or influenced to do drugs? Why do we have an enormous number of ‘depressed’ teenagers/youth? There were drugs when I went to school, not this stuff but LSD, uppers/downers, cocaine and prescription opioids, but even then (1970j we were aware of the dangerous choice and while I witnessed a few students who did drugs, majority did not. We graduated, grew up and became contributors to society. No one was ever diagnosed as depressed. I think the medical field is very confused with the cycle of puberty diagnosed as depression. I recall being a misfit. Didn’t think I belonged. Felt and believed I looked ugly, awkward and unlikable. Even hated my parents from time to time. Now I see it as the natural process of puberty and growing up! Unfortunately, It’s labelled as depression these days and countered by medication. Is that where addiction comes in? Have we turned our children into thinking there’s something ’wrong’ with them so they need prescription to get them past the very challenging puberty stage? When in fact, parents need to be parents, execute their duty as parents and “weather” those puberty years as all our forefathers did. Mostly, I think, the majority of us came out on the right side of being a good person. I was probably what you would classify today as a very shy introvert in my teen years. A couple friends but certainly not part of the “in crowd” or “popular.” I think my parents did a great job despite my moments of rebellion but I only saw that when I grew up. Why are our kids diagnosed with depression? Is it really depression? Is it this negative stigma to label them depressed a gateway to do drugs! Why are our kids so unhappy! Feeling so deprived? Unloved? Unwanted? Unlikeable? Entitled? I think we have to understand what invites our drug addicted into the drug world in the beginning. Can’t claim ignorance, we know how harmful drugs can be. I don’t think society is much to help the addicted if we don’t understand what drove them there in the first place. I don’t think we should demand the ‘government’ fix anything that belongs to society. Government is not to govern rules of society. Communities dictate society. All you have to do is witness the mess, chaos and mayhem the government “experts” have IMPOSED upon society. Lisa, Dix, Eby, Henry are NOT experts. They are government employees who couldn’t (and shouldn’t) operate a lemon stand! I do not know anyone, family or friends, who is a drug addicts. I am not an expert or have experience. That ‘expertise’ belongs to the drug addicts that are now clean and sober. We need to listen to them. They may have had different version of what worked for them, but there is a common denominator we need to find and I believe they are our avenue for a solution. We need to stop relying on the government to “fix” our social inadequacies & those that label themselves “experts” when they are truly not! Like the guy who reads an on-line instruction for flying a plane - doesn’t make him an ‘expert’ pilot! Just saying.
As far as the why goes. There are so many factors that play into why or how someone gets into drugs:
1) The most prevalent in my opinion is ACE Adverse Childhood Experiences. There is a test by the same name and from what I have seen most people with a substance use problem can generally trace it back to a number of factors going back to early life. The world can be a horrible place for a child for a huge number of reasons.
2) no one starts with crack on their drug taking journey. It’s a slow road and as you travel down that road you are introduced to a number of characters that help guide that journey. As you start to get some miles under your belt you will start to distance yourself from people not behaving the way you are and get closer to people who either find the behaviour acceptable or promote it. Misery loves company. It’s hard to see the errors in judgment in real time but time allows people to reflect on the poor choices of the past.
3) for some people drugs are a recreational experience for others it is self medication hiding from the thoughts or memories that haunt them. A way to feel good when normal life might be void of joy.
4) most people that do drugs don’t end up as addicts. It’s a small minority of people who have experience with drugs that actually get addicted. I believe it’s in the 5-10% range but it could be less and the cause is something that is hard to come to an agreement on because it’s such an individual experience with innumerable factors that can cause the problem.
5) modern times are much different for kids now than they were when we grew up. We didn’t have access to the entire world and social media that allows us to know what anyone anywhere is doing at any moment in time. It also makes it impossible to hide. If we had a bad experience growing up we could switch schools or move to another town and start fresh. That’s not an option now. There is no anonymity and that can cause problems along with societal pressures. I don’t want to get into a bigger conversation about youth culture but I feel like the people who were outcasts or odd are not being coerced into thinking they are if the wrong sex and wether they are doing it for attention or confusion a system has been set up to foster those thoughts and ideas as opposed to to trying to understand if they are genuine.
5) mental health. I was watching a hidden camera investigation where someone went to go see doctors to describe a number of basic symptoms that everyone feels from time to time. 5/5 told the person they were depressed and had either add or adhd and recommended medication. Our medical system fosters the idea of if I have a problem this pill is the solution. It is not often that an overworked doctor will tell a patient “hey, anxiety is a normal feeling people get. Instead of taking a pill to numb that feeling have you tried exercising a little bit and maybe done a little meditation because when I feel anxious those are the skills I have developed to combat that feeling as well as figuring out what in my life is causing it.” I understand some people need medication for depression or anxiety but do our doctors do enough to discern between clinical depression and someone that’s just having a shitty run at life for a period of time.
6) mental health part 2. There are a lot of people with very complex mental health issues that also use drugs and those are generally the people we see in the streets. How do we help the people that don’t want help and don’t have the mental capacity to know they need it? Involuntary care is a big buzz word now. One thing I know for a fact is you can’t help someone that doesn’t want it. Forcing someone into treatment might get them clean for the duration of their stay but they most likely won’t have a grand awakening and realize that what they have been doing has been killing them but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. Addiction treatment has a horrible ROI something like 10% of people that go to treatment will be clean a year later and the numbers drop off as time goes on. Sometimes people get it the first time around sometimes it takes a number of tries before they are truly ready. It’s hard for people who haven’t been through it to understand but when you start to look at all the other addictions that exist sometimes being addicted to drugs is the best one because it’s very obvious. Someone addicted to shopping isn’t going to notice the effects on their wellbeing or recognize the harm they are bringing to their life doing something as innocuous as shopping but there are people out there that take it too far. The same can be said about sex, gambling, alcohol and any number of other activities people generally participate in without any negative repressions.
7) the government and people with authority. It’s going to come out sooner or later that the money from fentanyl sales is ending up in influential people’s pockets. Those people guide policy. When those people accept that dirty money they become addicted to it as well and to the detriment of our society thousands of people die every year. We have been soft on drugs because there are billions of dollars being made and there are a lot of people that are being bought with that money.
I think we can start by using the proper language… It’s “UNSAFE” supply not safe. I’m a mother of 4 boys, I am now 67 & can say that the 4 are contributors to society & thankfully didn’t get sucked into the drug scene.
While listening to each story, the most obvious notation is it appears each and every child seemed to be so unhappy. Why is that? I notice in my community as well. My observation is our young teenagers appear to be very miserable in general. I think there’s serious lacking of discipline in the family dynamics. Don’t misinterpret what I’m saying, I’m not trying to victim blame, I simply want to point out our children seem to be so miserable and unhappy and why is that? Why are all these children turning to drugs to “fit in” - “do what others do” - “bored” - “lack parenting” - etc.etc. I see little parental discipline and more of “best friends” with your children, whether out of guilt because you’re a single parent or just lack the skills, it is evident to me, parents need to be parents, not their “best friend” to their child. These are two very distinctive duties. You NEVER stop being a parent, NEVER. And sometimes that means your child doesn’t always like you, maybe even tells you they HATE you! But, thats what being a parent is, being loved and hated for enforcing rules or discipline is All part of being a parent, not a “best friend.”
I have NEVER supported the UNSAFE supply of drugs, legal or otherwise. I NEVER supported the legalization of pot either. Lisa, Henry, Dix, Eby should ALL be class action sued for crimes against humanity. We need to take care and charge of our children. That is your parental duty to protect and teach and both of those duties are accomplished with discipline. Stop giving your parental duties to the government to “fix” that is precisely why we are where we are, people telling the government to “fix” society and social issues is a recipe for failure because all government operations will eventually fail. Government should be enforcing the law. Minimizing drug trafficking and sales is a good start. The “social” stuff is to be executed by the populace.
Not all safe supply programs hand out the drugs for addicts to take out onto the streets & sell. There are safe supply programs where addicts use their own drugs with a nurse supervising. these programs also help addicts get off the street, get off drugs & find housing among other types of resources.
I don’t presume to be an expert but legalization hasn’t worked out. Portugal experience hasn’t translated here. I believe the point is that government supply has led to diversion. As a retired physician I have first hand knowledge of this.
Portugal never allowed unfettered use of drugs in public and did mandate treatment when offenders/users were caught doing so. Our version of 'harm reduction' was never serious about the treatment and prevention side; hence we only got the harm, provided by the govt., funded with tax dollars.
There is something very weird going on with the coroner. I believe she has been replaced now but an addictions specialist doctor I know personally had very strong negative opinions of the chief coroner because of her outsized influence on safe supply policy. Safe supply seems like a good idea on the surface but the huge problems it creates are:
1) cheap government drugs that are diverted. Did we learn nothing when we went through the OxyContin crisis? A lot of these addicts started out on prescription drugs they were prescribed. Then the government put a stop to that. What happened next? People that were addicted to pills went to the black market. The black market thrived with pills costing upwards of $1/mg or fentanyl that was equivalent to 10 cents a milligram the economics of that disparity can show you where people are going to end up. Then safer supply comes out and the street price of hydro morphine is now .10/mg people who are addicted will build up a tolerance are the edge of affordability. So we now have drugs that are extremely cheap and powerful and people are using more than they ever would have and that makes it that much harder to get off them.
2) when drug supplies are cheap and plentiful it robs addicts of “the gift of desperation” an addict with a cheap and steady supply of drugs is never going to think about getting clean or turning their life around. Those moments arrive when they don’t have money or don’t have drugs and while in a crippling withdrawal they have a moment of clarity that they are sick and tired of being sick and tired. It’s a blessing to have that moment of clarity but the next step in the process needs to also be effective.
3) there is a very short window between someone asking for help and when it can be effectively delivered. If someone is willing to seek help it needs to be delivered immediately. Our treatment system needs to reflect that. If someone goes to their doctor looking for help is the doctor going to be able to refer them to treatment or are they going to refer them to a safe supply clinic? If faced with the option an addiction is going to do anything within their power to stay high. These drugs literally rewire people brains. They are not capable of making proper decisions when faced with an option that includes staying high and that’s a problem.
It is hard for people who have never been an addict to understand the thought process. It’s also difficult for them to think of addicts as people other than the zombies roaming the downtown east side. There are plenty of doctors, lawyers, politicians and other prominent citizens that suffer in silence who can hold down a job and fuel their addiction that fall into the same category as the people on the streets. Addiction is a far more prevalent issue than meets the eye and when people are looking down on the people on the streets they need to look around because if they look hard enough they will know someone close to them that is struggling. Sometimes all it takes is a look in the mirror because you don’t need to be doing fentanyl to be infected by the disease of addiction and sometimes that self awareness isn’t there. The solution is hard and expensive and no political party can change things with a few strokes of a pen. It’s going to take all levels of government and community to come up with a viable solution to start saving the lives of countless people who have lost their way. I hope the lens we view addiction through changes soon because if all we see is homeless people walking the streets like zombies the policies are not going to affect the change we need as a society.
By, someone who was prescribed OxyContin and tried to get help for years before finally getting in touch with the right people at the right time to break the cycle nearly 5 years ago.
I always believed the best information comes from those who have ‘been there, done that’ … a wealth of knowledge. Your declaration at the end of your statement just ads power and substance.
I still would like to know the root of our lost souls, from teenagers to adults. Why? What is/was the pivotal time frame that the choice to do drugs, not to a drug addict, but to do drugs transpired? We are all fairly educated on all the reasons NOT to do drugs. Why are people choosing drugs? Why are teenagers so bored or influenced to do drugs? Why do we have an enormous number of ‘depressed’ teenagers/youth? There were drugs when I went to school, not this stuff but LSD, uppers/downers, cocaine and prescription opioids, but even then (1970j we were aware of the dangerous choice and while I witnessed a few students who did drugs, majority did not. We graduated, grew up and became contributors to society. No one was ever diagnosed as depressed. I think the medical field is very confused with the cycle of puberty diagnosed as depression. I recall being a misfit. Didn’t think I belonged. Felt and believed I looked ugly, awkward and unlikable. Even hated my parents from time to time. Now I see it as the natural process of puberty and growing up! Unfortunately, It’s labelled as depression these days and countered by medication. Is that where addiction comes in? Have we turned our children into thinking there’s something ’wrong’ with them so they need prescription to get them past the very challenging puberty stage? When in fact, parents need to be parents, execute their duty as parents and “weather” those puberty years as all our forefathers did. Mostly, I think, the majority of us came out on the right side of being a good person. I was probably what you would classify today as a very shy introvert in my teen years. A couple friends but certainly not part of the “in crowd” or “popular.” I think my parents did a great job despite my moments of rebellion but I only saw that when I grew up. Why are our kids diagnosed with depression? Is it really depression? Is it this negative stigma to label them depressed a gateway to do drugs! Why are our kids so unhappy! Feeling so deprived? Unloved? Unwanted? Unlikeable? Entitled? I think we have to understand what invites our drug addicted into the drug world in the beginning. Can’t claim ignorance, we know how harmful drugs can be. I don’t think society is much to help the addicted if we don’t understand what drove them there in the first place. I don’t think we should demand the ‘government’ fix anything that belongs to society. Government is not to govern rules of society. Communities dictate society. All you have to do is witness the mess, chaos and mayhem the government “experts” have IMPOSED upon society. Lisa, Dix, Eby, Henry are NOT experts. They are government employees who couldn’t (and shouldn’t) operate a lemon stand! I do not know anyone, family or friends, who is a drug addicts. I am not an expert or have experience. That ‘expertise’ belongs to the drug addicts that are now clean and sober. We need to listen to them. They may have had different version of what worked for them, but there is a common denominator we need to find and I believe they are our avenue for a solution. We need to stop relying on the government to “fix” our social inadequacies & those that label themselves “experts” when they are truly not! Like the guy who reads an on-line instruction for flying a plane - doesn’t make him an ‘expert’ pilot! Just saying.
As far as the why goes. There are so many factors that play into why or how someone gets into drugs:
1) The most prevalent in my opinion is ACE Adverse Childhood Experiences. There is a test by the same name and from what I have seen most people with a substance use problem can generally trace it back to a number of factors going back to early life. The world can be a horrible place for a child for a huge number of reasons.
2) no one starts with crack on their drug taking journey. It’s a slow road and as you travel down that road you are introduced to a number of characters that help guide that journey. As you start to get some miles under your belt you will start to distance yourself from people not behaving the way you are and get closer to people who either find the behaviour acceptable or promote it. Misery loves company. It’s hard to see the errors in judgment in real time but time allows people to reflect on the poor choices of the past.
3) for some people drugs are a recreational experience for others it is self medication hiding from the thoughts or memories that haunt them. A way to feel good when normal life might be void of joy.
4) most people that do drugs don’t end up as addicts. It’s a small minority of people who have experience with drugs that actually get addicted. I believe it’s in the 5-10% range but it could be less and the cause is something that is hard to come to an agreement on because it’s such an individual experience with innumerable factors that can cause the problem.
5) modern times are much different for kids now than they were when we grew up. We didn’t have access to the entire world and social media that allows us to know what anyone anywhere is doing at any moment in time. It also makes it impossible to hide. If we had a bad experience growing up we could switch schools or move to another town and start fresh. That’s not an option now. There is no anonymity and that can cause problems along with societal pressures. I don’t want to get into a bigger conversation about youth culture but I feel like the people who were outcasts or odd are not being coerced into thinking they are if the wrong sex and wether they are doing it for attention or confusion a system has been set up to foster those thoughts and ideas as opposed to to trying to understand if they are genuine.
5) mental health. I was watching a hidden camera investigation where someone went to go see doctors to describe a number of basic symptoms that everyone feels from time to time. 5/5 told the person they were depressed and had either add or adhd and recommended medication. Our medical system fosters the idea of if I have a problem this pill is the solution. It is not often that an overworked doctor will tell a patient “hey, anxiety is a normal feeling people get. Instead of taking a pill to numb that feeling have you tried exercising a little bit and maybe done a little meditation because when I feel anxious those are the skills I have developed to combat that feeling as well as figuring out what in my life is causing it.” I understand some people need medication for depression or anxiety but do our doctors do enough to discern between clinical depression and someone that’s just having a shitty run at life for a period of time.
6) mental health part 2. There are a lot of people with very complex mental health issues that also use drugs and those are generally the people we see in the streets. How do we help the people that don’t want help and don’t have the mental capacity to know they need it? Involuntary care is a big buzz word now. One thing I know for a fact is you can’t help someone that doesn’t want it. Forcing someone into treatment might get them clean for the duration of their stay but they most likely won’t have a grand awakening and realize that what they have been doing has been killing them but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. Addiction treatment has a horrible ROI something like 10% of people that go to treatment will be clean a year later and the numbers drop off as time goes on. Sometimes people get it the first time around sometimes it takes a number of tries before they are truly ready. It’s hard for people who haven’t been through it to understand but when you start to look at all the other addictions that exist sometimes being addicted to drugs is the best one because it’s very obvious. Someone addicted to shopping isn’t going to notice the effects on their wellbeing or recognize the harm they are bringing to their life doing something as innocuous as shopping but there are people out there that take it too far. The same can be said about sex, gambling, alcohol and any number of other activities people generally participate in without any negative repressions.
7) the government and people with authority. It’s going to come out sooner or later that the money from fentanyl sales is ending up in influential people’s pockets. Those people guide policy. When those people accept that dirty money they become addicted to it as well and to the detriment of our society thousands of people die every year. We have been soft on drugs because there are billions of dollars being made and there are a lot of people that are being bought with that money.
Well stated.
Hi Adam. I am currently reading " Crooked Smile " . On another note, with the election tomorrow, it's interesting that the NDP stronghold is Vancouver. Perhaps a trip to the downtown core would wake them up. All the Best. https://www.amazon.ca/Crooked-Smile-Escape-Homelessness-Addiction/dp/B0CWZ1GHLW/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1MYHYPITAR5ZX&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.vsqvZK942cPI824g67VJEruVozkw5cJbPZKgVzJRAopAL3QPAVUear73MFFFIotiK3VVAFixGJ_2ZL7rJmpDm2x_seIavw55MByZdYZwcfR42cTClxwhOY8a4BsyGZApc5I7VJzxkyQsZRFZPR73eq3u9Z-RiBeMHfym7xG-3VFEuEhixQJ5_jHO9ZKzPNShYxqsv8JlcKipUA8isp5uXTAUmbtQbQP3qaEl21_bLnpo0s49H_jSq-S7lRymHxzN25Xyr6042vBoOl90oxYFPsCS2SW4a7AsNT09yqwZ8cY.onsQMt8NDHnCtqf4cAxrl7Giy5veIVX-X4MedBrFBqU&dib_tag=se&keywords=crooked+smile+book&qid=1729298260&sprefix=crooked+sm%2Caps%2C317&sr=8-1
I think we can start by using the proper language… It’s “UNSAFE” supply not safe. I’m a mother of 4 boys, I am now 67 & can say that the 4 are contributors to society & thankfully didn’t get sucked into the drug scene.
While listening to each story, the most obvious notation is it appears each and every child seemed to be so unhappy. Why is that? I notice in my community as well. My observation is our young teenagers appear to be very miserable in general. I think there’s serious lacking of discipline in the family dynamics. Don’t misinterpret what I’m saying, I’m not trying to victim blame, I simply want to point out our children seem to be so miserable and unhappy and why is that? Why are all these children turning to drugs to “fit in” - “do what others do” - “bored” - “lack parenting” - etc.etc. I see little parental discipline and more of “best friends” with your children, whether out of guilt because you’re a single parent or just lack the skills, it is evident to me, parents need to be parents, not their “best friend” to their child. These are two very distinctive duties. You NEVER stop being a parent, NEVER. And sometimes that means your child doesn’t always like you, maybe even tells you they HATE you! But, thats what being a parent is, being loved and hated for enforcing rules or discipline is All part of being a parent, not a “best friend.”
I have NEVER supported the UNSAFE supply of drugs, legal or otherwise. I NEVER supported the legalization of pot either. Lisa, Henry, Dix, Eby should ALL be class action sued for crimes against humanity. We need to take care and charge of our children. That is your parental duty to protect and teach and both of those duties are accomplished with discipline. Stop giving your parental duties to the government to “fix” that is precisely why we are where we are, people telling the government to “fix” society and social issues is a recipe for failure because all government operations will eventually fail. Government should be enforcing the law. Minimizing drug trafficking and sales is a good start. The “social” stuff is to be executed by the populace.
I wish there was more coverage form media and non conservative parties.
This destruction of drugs, mental health issues and other issues need a spotlight shined on it.
Not all safe supply programs hand out the drugs for addicts to take out onto the streets & sell. There are safe supply programs where addicts use their own drugs with a nurse supervising. these programs also help addicts get off the street, get off drugs & find housing among other types of resources.
I don’t presume to be an expert but legalization hasn’t worked out. Portugal experience hasn’t translated here. I believe the point is that government supply has led to diversion. As a retired physician I have first hand knowledge of this.
Thanks for your expert opinion. Too often “political science” makes health decisions to the detriment of patients.
Portugal never allowed unfettered use of drugs in public and did mandate treatment when offenders/users were caught doing so. Our version of 'harm reduction' was never serious about the treatment and prevention side; hence we only got the harm, provided by the govt., funded with tax dollars.
Giver yourself a shake Ms Morrison, thank you
And I got a bridge to sell