CSIS director warned PM Trudeau and his aides Canada faces existential threat on Chinese interference and lags Five Eyes, Commission hears
“Low risk and high reward is an expression I have used many times,” Vigneault testifies
CSIS director David Vigneault has privately and repeatedly briefed Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and his top political aides on explosive CSIS assessments reflected in classified briefing notes, including that Canada faces an existential threat from Chinese interference while Trudeau’s government has lagged Canada’s Five Eyes allies in responding with legislation, the Foreign Interference Commission heard Friday.
Vigneault was recalled to testify on what has been called a “remarkable” document: his briefing materials for a high-stakes, February 2023 meeting between himself and Trudeau’s senior political advisors, including chief of staff Katie Telford and deputy chief of staff Brian Clow.
The Commission has previously reviewed documents from confidential CSIS witnesses pointing to a second meeting in 2023 between Prime Minister Trudeau, CSIS director Vigneault, Trudeau’s national security advisor, and Privy Council Office clerk, after which Vigneault was allegedly directed to revise aspects of an intelligence report on Chinese officials allegedly directing Chinese high school students to vote for Liberal MP Han Dong’s nomination in 2019.
On Friday, Commission lawyers asked Vigneault about notes from his February 2023 meeting with Trudeau’s senior aides, which said: “In February 2021, I briefed the Prime Minister on PRC-linked individuals interfering with the 2019 Liberal nomination in Don Valley North.”
“Do you have any recollection of this meeting taking place in February, 2021?” one Commission lawyer asked.
“If you go back to the initial briefings about Don Valley North around 2019, the passage of time between 2019 and 2021, my assumption is that this was not the first time that I would've personally talked to the Prime Minister about this,” David Vigneault answered.
Regarding the same February 2023 document, Conservative MP Michael Chong’s lawyer pointed to “the bullet point: We know that the PRC clandestinely and deceptively interfered in both the 2019 and 2021 general elections. Is this knowledge something that you or the Service communicated to the Prime Minister or the Prime Minister's Office?”
“It is indeed something that has been communicated,” Vigneault answered. “Our assessment [was] we saw foreign interference in both the 2019 and 2021 elections.”
That same redacted February 2023 briefing document says China’s election interference campaigns in 2019 and 2021 “were pragmatic in nature and focussed primarily on supporting those viewed to be either ‘pro-PRC’ or ‘neutral’ on issues of interest to the PRC government.”
It added in one case “at least 11 candidates and 13 staff members were implicated in PRC Foreign Interference networks.”
It continued: “Reporting also suggests that on at least one occasion, the PRC [redacted] transferred approximately $250,000 [redacted sentences] to the staff member of a 2019 Federal Election candidate, and then to an Ontario MPP [redacted sentences.]”
Vigneault was also asked about lines in the February 2023 “Briefing to the Prime Minister’s Office” document that said: “Foreign Interference is high-reward and low risk” and hostile states successfully interfere in Canada “because there are few legal or political consequences.”
Vigneault’s notes also say combatting foreign interference “will require a shift in the government's perspective and a willingness to take decisive action and impose consequences on perpetrators,” and the problem will continue unless it "is viewed as an existential threat to Canadian democracy and governments forcefully and actively respond."
"Most of the information in that document was not relayed to us in that meeting," Trudeau’s senior political aide Brian Clow testified earlier this week.
Vigneault testified Friday that he may not have used the exact words cited in the document, but these are general messages he has shared privately with Trudeau’s government many times.
“Low risk and high reward is an expression I have used many times,” he said.
Regarding an earlier brief for the Prime Minister from Vigneault and related documents, MP Michael Chong’s lawyer asked: “Have you ever communicated this particular assessment about us being slower than our Five Eyes allies, to either the Prime Minister or the Prime Minister's office?”
“I can say with confidence that this is something that has been conveyed to the government, to ministers, the Prime Minister, using these words,” Vigneault said.
On Wednesday, Trudeau contradicted previous testimony from his chief of staff Katie Telford, who told a Parliamentary hearing in April 2023 “of course the Prime Minister reads any documents he receives.”
Trudeau testified he relies on top officials such as CSIS director David Vigneault and his national security advisor to verbally guide him towards urgent information, and rarely reads intelligence documents.
sam@thebureau.news
Glad to see Vigneault was recalled and gave such strong clarification. So Trudeau has now contradicted both Katie Telford and David Vigneault in his testimony. What are the consequences of perjury in an inquiry like this?
"I have trees to plant, homes to build, scandals to tamp down and plane rides to take, so you will forgive me if I don't think about national security issues."